Lesley Wong - Guest Focused Hotel Design (Part 2 of 2)

[Episode 30]

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Lesley Wong is the owner and Principal Designer at Lesley Wong Interiors and is a hospitality interior design specialists based in Ontario, Canada. Her guest-first design strategy is focused on crafting customized and beautiful hotel spaces for guests, that are both ascetically pleasing and operationally function for operators. Lesley graduated from the New York School of Interior Design and honed her skills in design and construction with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts. She has operated her own design firm from nearly 10 years, working with brands including Comfort Inn, Best Western, IHG, and Hilton on creating unique, boutique hospitality environments.
 
You can connect with Lesley on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/lesley-wong-hotels or visit her website at: lesleywonginteriors.ca
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Host: William C Murray, PhD:

William is passionate about service, the hospitality industry, and human experiences. He began working in the service industry at 14 and has never looked back, gaining experience in retail, restaurants, and major hotel companies nationwide. He is an expert in service, hospitality operations, and management, with over two decades teaching at both colleges and universities across Canada.
 
William holds a PhD in Management and multiple degrees in hospitality and tourism. He in an Associate Professor at the University of Guelph (Canada) in the School of Hospitality, Food & Tourism Management at the Lang School of Business & Economics. His research focuses on workforce sustainability and the human condition of workers. He has published work in top journals, including Sustainability, the International Journal of Hospitality & Tourism Administration, and the Journal of Human Resources in Hospitality and Tourism, along with being a co-author of the textbook Snapshots: An Introduction to Tourism, 6th Cdn.
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Transcript

William Murray: 0:00

Hi there, I'm William Murray. Welcome to the Service Centre.

Lesley Wong: 0:05

The room in itself can be considered a canvas and everything you put onto that Canvas is now part of this piece of art

William Murray: 0:26

Welcome back to The Service Center, our little corner of the podcast-scape where we look at people, stories, and insights in hospitality and service. You know, it's hard to believe but this is episode 30. It seems just like yesterday that I sat down for episode 1 with Sarah Glenn, the CEO of Accor Hotels. And now here we are 30 episodes later, still going strong. A little bit of administration. Something new here that I have set up and I wanted to share with you. Like all podcasts the show does have some ongoing costs associated with it. But so far, I've handled this more as a labour of love project, bringing you a couple of new stories and some great guests every month. Many of you enjoy the show over a cup of coffee. So in honour of that beautiful cup of coffee, I have opened up the ability for you to help keep kicking this can down the road. For the cost of a single cup of coffee a month, and that's drip coffee, not even the fancy mocha-choco lattes, you can subscribe and become a Service Center supporter. Now, do I have secret paywalled content? No, I do not. Do I have cool merch? Nope. But what I do have is a microphone. And so I will gleefully give you many thankful shout outs in future episodes - all for just one cup of coffee a month! Go check out the link in the show notes. If you'd like to do that. I would greatly appreciate it. It would keep the show going strong. Speaking the show, back to business. This is the second part of my series talking with Lesley Wong, an expert in hotel interior design. To refresh our memories, Lesley is a graduate of the New York School of interior design, who developed her skills in design and construction with Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts before opening up her own design group in 2014. About Lesley Wong interiors. Lesley brings a guest first design strategy to her projects and is completely focused on interior creations within the hotel space. She has worked with independent operators and branded properties right across Canada. Let's jump back into my conversation with Leslie Wong. As always, my name is William Murray and welcome to The Service Center. When we spoke earlier, I was bringing up this idea of of the servicescape - the servicescape being a concept designed by Mary Jo Bittner and Bernard Booms in the early 1980s. And Mary Jo Bittner created a career out of talking about the servicescape. The idea of the servicescape being that it is the environment in which services are assembled, in which the customer and the service provider are are interacting. But more specifically, it's the tangible commodities. Bitner and Booms call it "the tangible commodities that facilitate performance or communication of service", which is everything that we're talking about in the environment. And these tangible commodities communicate to our customers, whether we are providing them with something that's pleasurable, or unpleasurable, that arouses their emotions or mutes their emotions, or makes them create a decision of 'I want to approach that particular piece of furniture', 'I want to approach this environment', or 'I want to avoid that completely'. Bitner and Booms wrote that in the early 1980s. Just last year, though, you wrote a piece called'Are you creating a luxury travel experience' - it's one of your blog pieces on your on your website. And in that piece, you discuss how design engages human senses. That is the non-human elements are engaging our human senses, four of them. So, we'll throw out taste. (Laugh). We have hearing, smell, sight and touch. How do these non-human these design elements impact this sense? Sensarally? Sense-orally? I'm making up words here!

Lesley Wong: 4:36

That's okay!

William Murray: 4:36

Through our senses. I have an English degree I could just make one. How does this show up in design so that we are engaging these four senses of touch, sight, smell and hearing so that we are getting that pleasure, that arousal, that attraction?

Lesley Wong: 4:55

Well, you think about it when you go to a coffee shop. The sense of smell is engaged right away, you smell coffee and you're like, Oh, I think I might like a coffee. Or you go into a bakery, I think I might like a croissant.

William Murray: 5:07

I know that designers put the vents for bakeries at the front. So, I walk towards a bakery and I smell the fresh bread and I am magically sucked into the bakery and I will be spending $8 on a loaf of artisanal bread. It's out of my control. I blame you the designers.

Lesley Wong: 5:27

But that's an example of how it works. Right. And and textiles are a fantastic way that. I'm personally exploring more and more, you think of the fuzzy pillow, you know, you're you see a sofa, the sofa might be leather, which you know, we know that the the the touch of leather, but you put a fuzzy pillow onto it, and that's what you want to go touch. You want to go touch the fuzzy pillow because it feels soft and comforting and fun to run through your fingers. The site, obviously, whether it be stimulating or calming, has an impact through colour, through form, through art, really - which the room in itself can be considered a canvas, and everything you put onto that canvas is now part of this piece of art. And then sound obviously, if you want hustle and bustle and a lot of noise, then there may be going to Union Station is for you. But if you're coming to a place where you want to rest and feel at peace and sort of relax, then you know, spa music is typical for when you're you're getting massage, that kind of thing. Something that's going to stimulate that sense of relaxation, or sound could be, hey, I'm in this really cool hotel is themed around music. And it's playing my favourite music from the 60s, the 70s, the 80s, right. And I feel really good. I feel like I want to dance a little bit or something like that. So all these senses are engaged. And I think if we pay attention to them, as a hotelier, you can really make a success of your guest experience. If you ignore them now, I think it can be a lost opportunity.

William Murray: 7:16

I almost think that good hotels, when they get design, right, it's not just one design. And correct me if I'm wrong, because you're you're the expert in design here. But it is almost like you're storyboarding spaces and feelings within those spaces. So here's how I want you to feel outside of my building, here's how I want you to feel in the lobby. If it's a lobby bar, physically, through design, through the floors, through the music, through the lights, I want you to feel differently in the lobby bar. I want you to feel different in the restaurant. I want you to feel different in the hallway. I want you to feel different in your guests.

Lesley Wong: 7:53

Absolutely. And as much as they are different, they all are interconnected to you know, through, say one or two particular colours that carry through the whole space, or is it a certain carpet that runs from one space to the next, the tiles - almost like a Wayfinding, even if we might. So as much as they are separate, they're still interconnected. So you feel like you can naturally move through the space.

William Murray: 8:21

We were recently down at the Fairmont Royal York. And I had spoken to Edwin Frizeell, on the show about the multi year extremely expensive renovation that they did within their their lobby space, the restaurants in the lobby bar. But as we received a private tour through that space, what myself and my colleague realised was, we were emotionally being transported. It was just a four o'clock in the afternoon and we were wandering through the lobby bar, and then the secondary lobby bar, the library, and then the restaurant, and then a private dining area. And then back into the lobby. They've segmented colour, style, mood, sound, lighting, and they've used all of these elements. They still tie together, but you feel like you are in distinctly different spaces.

Lesley Wong: 9:17

It's awesome how that can really have an impact on the on the mind and your emotions. And I really think that's key in repeat guest experience.

William Murray: 9:30

Do you think... and this is a tricky question, because I know you work with a lot of operators. Do you think operators appreciate the full spectrum of sensory influences that come at them through design? Or is this part of the educational component that you have to bring as a designer and share that?

Lesley Wong: 9:51

This is a tricky question to answer because you don't want to offend anyone. But being a hotelier, many that I've experienced of hotel ownerships or management, they are number crunchers or they look at the bottom line. And they look at the operation side first, and that's very important for running a successful business - guaranteed. But this design element is a component that can enhance your business plan, or, yeah, I guess business plan is the right word. So...

William Murray: 10:29

You refer to it as one of the hotel's greatest assets. It is. It is! Because it's almost like the candy coating on an M&M. You've got what you need to have to have a successful hotel. But this layer of the pretty rapping on a gift, you know, the gift is great, but the pretty wrapping, it attracts you in and makes you want to open it. And the design has such a strong impact, it's almost like, we do have to educate hotel owners. We do have to remind them that yes, if you invest a little bit of your capital, then what it can give you is great reviews on platforms, travel platforms. It can give you great guest experience who feed those great reviews, who increases your your numbers, not only financially but in reports from, say the brand that you're affiliated with. And it just, it's almost like it, it lifts it up your bottom line. And I know a lot of people these days are trying to buy homes and sell homes. And we often say, 'Well, you know, you can sell your home for a million dollars, or you can sell it for a million and a half dollars if you stage it!' Right? If you get someone to come in and make it look pretty and finish off what you started. And it's a small investment, but has huge return. Same principle applies, you know, you can have a shell or a skeleton of a business, but we come in and dress it up and do the right things to make it that much more, then it's really worth the investment. And you have written about this before. Hoteliers is have a lot of moving parts, they have to run an operation, they have to deal with guest movement on a day to day, week to week basis. They have to handle pandemics. They have to deal with talent shortages. There's a capacity within the human mind that we can only deal with so many things. And so when I say is there an educational portion of that, I mean that in the most complimentary way to you, as well as to hoteliers. Because we do rely on experts to tell us those things that maybe we're not paying enough attention to. I love the way that you talk about creating things like Instagrammable moments, and making sure that there are pieces in your property. How important is that language today and in using social media and the visual dominance of Instagram and Tik Tok and Snapchat as ways of sharing your design and your brand?

Lesley Wong: 13:10

From me, it's an option that I... well, it's not an option. It's a must these days, because everybody's so visual, and visual in an instant, so to speak. You know, you flip through social media and if it catches your attention, your eyes might lay on it for two or three seconds - more than just flip. So you think about that in the framework of a hotel, so how much more so then is that Instagrammable moment, that social media moment, important. For me as a designer, it's a very visual business, what we do. And so making things look good, and then also function, is all of what we do. So for example, we did a property in Thunder Bay. We had a huge 14 foot by 16 foot mural designed specifically for the lobby so that anyone and everyone could come in and say,"Hey, I'm at that really cool hotel!", and here's the photographic evidence of me doing so. Or it could be something as simple as in Whistler, we're doing a project and we have a backdrop and an actual old chairlift that we're putting in front of the backdrop to make you look as if you're going up a ski hill in Whistler, and it could be in the middle of summer, right? But all those things offer opportunities that can be missed, because it's free marketing really, when you think about it. And that just serves you well, you know? Hey, I'm at that really cool hotel with that that I saw on Instagram!

William Murray: 14:45

You're getting a pull factor as well, because now people want to go and be part of that moment. They want to have their photo taken in that space and they want to share and talk about it. So you're creating a guest engagement? Where do you want to stay? I want to stay at the property that has X Y, Z! Oh, I saw this property on Instagram three or four times. Let's go there. Exactly. And I think we can't discount that type of traveller. And I think it depends also to what age bracket you're looking at, and what your hotel is geared towards, which goes back to your ideal guest. Knowing that guest and knowing what attracts them, you feed into that. We've gone through the pandemic, and a lot of companies either just near the tail end of the pandemic, or now, were trying to figure out what they do with their their PIPS - their property investment plans - and where do they spend money, because now we're in a rebound. A lot of the rebound that we've seen in 2020 to 2023 has been driven by leisure, and people just have that pent up demand I need to travel! I have all my vacation money just sitting in bank - letter rip! Hotels, also, though, need to be thinking about their design for the next, I was gonna say five to 10 years, but 10 years seems so far away in terms of design, because things change so fast. Over the next five years, where do you think operators should be focusing in terms of design?

Lesley Wong: 16:27

It's a really good question. I mean, the whole point of hospitality, the whole definition of hospitality is showing kindness or generosity to strangers. And I think let's not lose sight of that. If you have guests that are willing to come to your hotel, and spend their money and spend their time and make memories with their family, or friends, then give them an experience. Don't lose that human connection! Show that true experience of hospitality and keep that connection there. Because I think that will serve as not only a hotel, a hotelier, I think it's serves us as human beings. You know, we've gone through the pandemic and we've had that disconnect from each other for two, three years. Making that social connection again, and making it - making an environment that's conducive to good social connection - I think it has to be where things go.

William Murray: 17:26

Now, in terms of social connection, from a design perspective, would you think of that more as social spaces and opportunities for people to make connection? I'm seeing increase in lobby spaces serving as social spaces. I know, even 10 years ago, Marriott was talking about reducing the furniture in their room because Millennials did not want to stay in their room. They wanted to be in the lobby where there was energy and hustle and bustle. But the social spaces? Would you recommend that hotel? You spend a little bit more time focused on that?

Lesley Wong: 18:03

Yeah, I think we are social creatures, no matter what. Yes, there are individuals that are a little bit more, I guess, independent. But, for the most part, and again, seeing it from a guest perspective, if I'm travelling alone for business, and I'm, you know, I've been in a crowded convention all day long, and I've had my fill of people, then I will go and I will enjoy the peace and quiet in my hotel room. But if I'm travelling alone, or with my husband or partner, business associate, maybe we do want to socialise a little bit more. Maybe we do want to look at sitting in a common area, but still maybe in a vignette for two. So I think what we're seeing a lot more now is those larger common spaces that have a lot more furniture, flexibility and form that, you know, you can be still in a large room with other people, but not necessarily in each other's way. There are things like a communal table as well, that if you've got your laptop, and you need to charge your devices that that's there and you grab a cup of coffee before your your afternoon meeting, and others can join you and hey, you know, did you see the news, the TV's up there. Great weather we're having! Or another storm on its way... whatever it might be. And you can interact as much or as little as you like. But I think having those larger open spaces with flexible furnishing is something I see as an opportunity coming up that that hotels may want to consider moving forward.

William Murray: 19:50

I want to pick your brains really quickly. When a designer comes in and sets the stage, because that's really what you're doing, is you're setting a stage for an experience to be performed, whether it's front of house or heart of house. And you're executing a vision. At some point in time, though, you leave your you go to the next project, and it becomes the hoteles responsibility to maintain that image. And it's not the General<anager's job. It becomes the frontline service staffs. How do we, and I don't know the answer to this question, but how do we educate our front line talent, about the power of design and how quickly we can disrupt the illusion?

Lesley Wong: 20:42

That is a great, that's a great one. Um, I know that when we go into designing a hotel, we will often just sort of wander the halls that speak to housekeeping and say, 'Hey, what do you like about cleaning this room? What do you hate about cleaning this room?'. And their feedback gives us something to go off of. Quite often when I'm waiting for the GM to come and greet me at the reception, maybe he's busy in the back of house, I'll speak to reception. I'll say. 'Hey, what do you love about your reception desk? What do you hate about your reception desk? What would you like to see?" And all of these little conversations add up to a... I don't know what the right word was... but they add up to pieces of information that we then take can incorporate into our design. So I think when they know that they've been listened to, and paid attention to those team members will say, Oh, yeah, I remember talking to Leslie and we talked about how this works, this doesn't work. And she paid attention and here's the design response to that. I feel more engaged, I feel more appreciated. Yeah, I'm gonna personally be invested in making sure that my area is maintained or looked after, or whatever it might be. I think that that engagement really goes far, and make people feel listened to and incorporated into the design.

William Murray: 22:13

The inclusion is very important. And I'm glad that you said that. When I talked to my senior students, when we talk about facility and design, a term I use frequently is called Managing the Evidence. Max Ward used to say, if the tray table is broken on the airplane then the engine must be malfunctioning. We use the evidence in front of us to infer meaning in services and quality of products that we cannot see. So the idea of a burnt out light bulb can disrupt the illusion, because the burnt out light bulb, well, if that's not fixed, what else is wrong with the design?

Lesley Wong: 22:51

Good observation.

William Murray: 22:52

Yeah, that was driven home to me by a senior That's a very good point. Yeah, yeah. And as much as, I like how level manager when I was a front line desk agent. We used to play a game called 'how many?'. It's a silly game. But he used to walk up in the morning at about 6:30 in the morning, because I was on the early morning shift, and he would just say, 'how many?'. And the question really was, how many light bulbs are burnt out in the lobby. It was a mountain property, so it was a horrible game to play because all of the light fixtures were the like deer and moose antlers. So there, there might have been 800 light bulbs in the lobby. Every morning, he who just say,'how many?'. And for the first week or two? I have no idea! But it didn't take me long to realise, at the beginning of my shift, I need to look up, pay attention to the design elements, and put in those work orders. Because if he's seeing them, guests are seen. you use the word illusion, yes. But that's that's what we do. You know, we give people a look and feel that they want to gravitate towards in order to give them a good guest experience. As I study you, as I learn about your design and what you've done and what you write about, the idea of feeling comes up time and time again. And I can only think that if a guests were to walk into one of your rooms and not feel something. I think, what do the kids - meh?

Lesley Wong: 24:24

Yeah (laughs).

William Murray: 24:26

I walk in and it's fine. You know, it's a room. I've not been triggered to feel anything. The elegance, the romance, the warmth... whatever the feeling that you're trying to design. It would be that, I felt nothing... that would be hard as a designer.

Lesley Wong: 24:50

Yeah, there's a real balance we have to strike between what, say for example, what a brand dictates that they want in their guestoom. If you are doing a boutique hotel and you have carte blanche for design, then it just soars. You know according to budget. But, but that's where we really get to put our personality, our flair into a guest room or lobby, restaurant, wherever it might be. And that, for designers, is a real thrill. But it doesn't mean to say that, you know, your standards, brand dictated design plan can't have personality either. You know, brands spend a lot of time money and effort, putting in research putting together these these guestrooms. And that has to be acknowledged, I think,

William Murray: 25:52

I believe that it's a big bonus that a lot of brands are understanding, that although we do need to have brand standards, having cookie cutter rooms based on geographic region, and culture and local flair, if we don't take those contexts into consideration, we've just become a commodity. So, that brand standard with a creative twist is something that you could you could bring to the table.

Lesley Wong: 26:22

So, for example, there's one hotel we're doing and, actually a couple of hotels tonight now that I think about it, they will say here's our design plan, this is what we want you to implement, but bring something from the area, whether it be artwork or a mural, or whether it be something local that identifies that hotel from where it comes from. Whether it be the lakeshore views and sunsets, whether it be the sports arenas that are around about and the history of that, whatever it might be.

William Murray: 26:58

I don't think guests are looking for that cookie cutter, one size fits all commodity bland experience anymore. And it really does open it up to creating feelings with guests. There is so much to talk about in terms of design. But I want to end with this question. If I were to invite you in to a room of young hospitality students, people who are keen and interested, and ask you this: What makes for good design?

Lesley Wong: 27:32

First thing I think of is to breathe the space. I think just taking a moment and absorbing what you're... the messages that are coming at you when you walk into a space in hospitality. Just breathe the space. That's how I describe. It is so key, because from there, you'll learn so much about the hotel, about the hotel ownership, about the brand. Don't discount the pretty things. Don't discount the sensory experience that you are receiving. Breathe the room. See how you're physically reacting to it and mentally reacting to it and go from there. Obviously, you want this to be a positive experience, one that's engaging, and will have repeat guests coming again and again and again. You want your hotel to be that one that people are talking about in a positive way guest reviews. Those are the things that you really need to pay attention to. And I think for hoteliers coming up, going through school, and learning all about this. Don't discount what design can do for your hotel.

William Murray: 28:43

I am 110% stealing that phrase, by the way, I will give you full credit. Breath the space! When I take my students out to do property tours, I'm going to use that and just say, 'take a minute, settle yourself, listen to the messages you're receiving and breathe the space,. And that's fantastic advice for for just about anybody, from from somebody just coming into the hospitality industry and understanding space, to people who have been around for more than a couple of decades. Because sometimes we can assume that the space is just the space and we take it for granted. That's what I was looking for. We take the space for granted. Leslie, it's been fantastic to spend some time talking to you about design, I really appreciate all of your insights in the feelings that you bring towards design, full circle, about how your environment has influenced who you are moving from small town northern Ontario into the big city in Toronto, and working with the Four Seasons. And now out on your own influencing spaces for other people. And now you are the pebble who is creating ripples in the experiences for 1000s upon 1000s of guests that are staying in hotels that you've touched.

Lesley Wong: 30:02

Yeah, when you think about it, it's kind of huge. Coming from the small town girl to the impact I can have on other people. It's a privilege, I think and something I enjoy immensely and want to keep doing because it's so enjoyable. I tell people I feel so fortunate to be able to do something like that. It's a cool job. There's no way around that. But like you say, you have an impact on people. And that's that's the best part.

William Murray: 30:41

Okay, how great was it to hear from someone in love with both design and the hotel industry? Leslie was fantastic in showcasing the importance of the intentional design of space and its relationship with great service, Her work, and really her passion, is to use the tangibles of a physical environment as the medium of communication so that customers can immediately understand a property's service nature. Next time you're in a place be sure to breathe it in and understand how that space impacts your impressions. Now, if you enjoyed this episode, take a moment and share it with your network. If you liked it, no doubt one of your colleagues will also find value here. It also helps the show if you hit that subscribe button, or leave a review. Let me know who you'd like to hear in future episodes. The Service Center podcast is hosted and produced by me, William Murray, and our cover art is created by Jack Designs. Thanks for choosing to spend your time here and I invite you back for more guests stories and service insight on the next episode of The Service Center.